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Chess-C1223
| C&O of Indiana Posted by Chess-C1223 on Friday, April 27, 2012 10:10 AM Besides the portion that is operated by the Indiana Eastern Railroad; is there anything left of the of the C&O of Indiana? Seems to me that it was never a high traffic density line and when they cut out the segment over Cheviot Hill during the construction of Queensgate Yard, the line became even less important.
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bubbajustin
| Posted by bubbajustin on Friday, April 27, 2012 1:30 PM Could be wrong, but I think that the Chesapeak and Indiana railroad operates ex- C&O trackage out of North Judson IN. I know the muesum there has a C&O "Kenawaha" or whatever. The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
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mudchicken
| Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 27, 2012 1:49 PM Pieces outside of IBCX's Indiana & Eastern are still in place on the old Chicago Cincinnati & LouisvilleRR are mostly gone except for the Kokomo RR and the stuff Justin aluded to. It died in a hurry once Amtrak came off of it because of no business over the bulk of the line. What's left are backtracks at several junction or crossing locations and little else. MudchickenNothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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CShaveRR
| Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, April 27, 2012 2:01 PM Historically, C&O ran three pairs of manifests over this line. And Amtrak was a tenant for a time in the 1970s and 1980s. When Queensgate was being built, the line up Cheviot Hill was given up in lieu of rights over the B&O via Hamilton, Ohio, and Cottage Grove, Indiana. And in 1976, C&O lost its entry into Chicago: the Erie Lackawanna line was abandoned west of Griffith, giving no thought to the fact that C&O also used that line. C&O immediately had to begin using its LaCrosse Subdivision between LaCrosse and Wellsboro so it could use the B&O to get into the Chicago area. It was first done with a series of backup moves over connecting tracks at Wellsboro, then a "balloon track" was built as soon as possible. Both of these things probably affected the viability of the line as a through route, but when CSX came about, the traffic between Chicago and the south no longer had to go via Cincinnati, and that probably had a lot more to do with its demise. Justin: it's Kanawha. Carl Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!) CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
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bubbajustin
| Posted by bubbajustin on Saturday, April 28, 2012 5:00 AM Thanks for the clarification everyone! I think they should call them Berkshires line NKP did! The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
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BaltACD
| Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:12 AM
C&O was not the NKP nor the B&M or the NYC. Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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CShaveRR
| Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:21 PM Or the Pere Marquette, for that matter! Carl Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!) CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
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BaltACD
| Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:33 PM
But they did gobble up the PM Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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ValleyX
| Posted by ValleyX on Sunday, April 29, 2012 10:11 PM A lot of wooden bridges, a couple of stout grades, and at least two clearance issues (Richmond and Muncie) did a lot to make this an abandonment candidate. For anyone interested, may I direct you to this website:http://candoindiana.com/
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CShaveRR
| Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, April 30, 2012 8:27 AM
True, but most of the PM 1200-series 2-8-4s never got renumbered, and were always Berkshires. Carl Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!) CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
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CShaveRR:|
CSSHEGEWISCH
| Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, April 30, 2012 10:00 AM C&O of Indiana also had a pretty poor entrance into Chicago: trackage rights on Erie/EL at Griffith which changed to trackage rights on C&WI at State Line, no real terminal yard of its own (Rockwell Street was a PM yard), etc. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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DwightBranch
| Posted by DwightBranch on Monday, April 30, 2012 12:21 PM Part of it is now the Cardinal Trail. As an aside, trails would be fine for tracks that would be abandoned anyway, but people are pushing to have them abandoned prematurely just so they can ride their bikes on them. I knew a guy in grad school from Eureka CA who was part of a movement to tear up the old NWP so he could ride his bike on it, I told him he was an idiot, wanting to appropriate bridges designed for up to 286k lbs. and that if he wants a bike trail BUILD a bike trail.
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MP173
| Posted by MP173 on Monday, April 30, 2012 1:38 PM In the late 1970's I spent considerable time at Wellsboro, In where the old Pere Marquette line from New Buffalo crossed the B&O and GTW and continued down to LaCrosse, In. As mentioned in the thread by Carl, this line became the gateway to Chicago when EL was abandoned. The line was given welded rail and while it was unsignaled, was a decent line. There were operators at Lacrosse (in a trailer) and Wellsboro. The crossings were automated, but the operator provided train orders on the segment to and from Lacrosse. It was a fairly busy junction with the C&O running the 6 freights, Amtrak 2 trains, and a local that came down from New Buffalo. GTW had about 20 trains daily as did the B&O. Probably the highlight of the line was the Chessie Steam Train special in 1977 which ran from Chicago to Cincy (?). That was when I "discovered" Wellsboro and spent a number of shifts there with the operator for a few years. Wellsboro is a very busy spot these days with CSX running 50 -60 per day and CN about 25. The balloon track is gone, as is the PM to New Buffalo. However, the Chesepeake and Indiana (CKIN or Chicken) runs to Lacrosse, then joining the old C&O line with a Y. Westbound it runs about 10 miles to Malden where a grain elevator loads trains about 3x month or so. An ex ATSF geep is on duty at Malden. Last week a CSX marked SD24 plus a caboose were also at Malden. East from Lacrosse, the CKIN runs to North Judson and the excellent museum. This is the line which has run the NKP 765 the past 2 years. So, not much exists of the C&O in NW Indiana these days. Late afternoons CSX runs Q500/Q501 thru the area. These are Chicago-Cincy trains...down from 3 each way to 1 each way. These trains often meet around Wellsboro. Ed
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rrnut282
| Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, April 30, 2012 7:22 PM The C&O of Indiana was also one of, if not the last mainline to be built across Indiana. It was also among the first to be abandoned. The B&O across northern Indiana lost its 2nd main not long after. With the former PM, B&O, C&O, and Monon lines converging on Chicago, something had to give. Mike(2-8-2)
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Fred Boyer
| Posted by Fred Boyer on Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:15 AM Link to the museum: www.hoosiervalley.org. Train rides from North Judson to English Lake every Saturday two times, to La Crosse once every Saturday. There is only one Sunday, Father's Day C&O 2789 is stored inside the shop. This building is open to visitors on all Saturdays. The museum has a depot built to C&O small town depot plans. The ex C&O trackage starts at IN 10, at La Crosse, it splits. The west leg runs to Malden, the north runs to Union Mills. Connections to the Norfolk Southern's ex Nickle Plate line and CSX ex B&O line. A total of 34 miles were saved by the museum when CSX wanted to tear it all out. Fred Boyer
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MP173
| Posted by MP173 on Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:27 AM Fred: Outstanding work by your organization. Not only is there a museum but also the line is viable with grain movements out of Malden...and potential for future growth. Ed
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DTomajko
| Posted by DTomajko on Wednesday, May 2, 2012 12:20 PM When I was in Wellsboro a few years ago, there also was an elevator right in Union Mills served by the CKIN. I had a chance to talk to two CKIN employees while there & they were less than enthusiastic about CSX's treatment of them.They also interchange with the TP&W further south and complained about TPW's timekeeping ability, never showing up at the interchange when they say & tying up the line while holding the right to occupy the line. I would also agree that Wellsboro is a good place to railfan; good views, quiet,& not to far away from amenities.
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Fred Boyer
| Posted by Fred Boyer on Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:09 PM CKIN reported 3540 carloads last year. CSX when filing reported a max of 450 cars per year. Different work rules and attention to the customer's needs makes the difference. CKIN does not connect with the TP&W. The track ends at IN 10, quite a few miles from Logansport. They connect with CSX and NS only. Indiana Boxcar may have another line that connects with TP&W - not this one. Fred Boyer
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